Tin Foil Hat Post

[WXman]

I'm betting that if you don't get into the pre-order line on day 1, you might be waiting for a year or two. I've seen that happen on a couple of new vehicles in the last few years.

 

[DeluxeStang]

After hearing from the attendance at the Ford Dealer Meeting, I can't wait to get all this information out to you on all the standard equipment. This will be as hot as the Ford Maverick was in 2021. I hope Ford is ready for the sales. I don't know how they can sell this truck for $30k with all the equipment. Better grab one the first year before the prices go up.

I'm getting more and more excited. My only real concerns left are styling and range. I hope it's not hideous, and hope the range is solid. Because the rest of the attributes are looking incredible. The price, performance, tech and features, etc.

 

[paneubert]

Maverick followers may remember Ford added cost to the XL by making a special steering wheel without the cruise control buttons even though every ECM has the functionality by default. Common sense eventually prevailed and XL got it back....

Part of why I ended up with more than one XL across model years. Then got wise and went to XLT when that trim was a banger of a value for what it provided base in 2025.

 

[Tdubz]

After hearing from the attendance at the Ford Dealer Meeting, I can't wait to get all this information out to you on all the standard equipment. This will be as hot as the Ford Maverick was in 2021. I hope Ford is ready for the sales. I don't know how they can sell this truck for $30k with all the equipment. Better grab one the first year before the prices go up.

IMO ford wants your data and they want to sell you subscriptions. Putting more vehicles on the road with blue cruise helps them achieve that. They’d probably sell the fathom at a loss since they can make more money off your data and subscriptions.

the biggest question mark is the design. I’ve heard mixed reviews on it.

 

[Snakebitten]

Are you saying that Ford WANTS to, and is WILLING to sell me a Fathom at say...... $5000 lo$$, because tracking me with Bluecruise will generate more revenue for them than $5000?

I'm not arguing that Ford isn't interested in generating revenue with subscription services, and even with data collection. But my total cost to subscribe to Bluecruise, Connected Navigation, and Premium Connectivity in my 2022 KingRanch Powerboost, isn't generating enough profit to offset selling me the truck at a lo$$.

 

[Pietalian]

Agreed, Fathom sales should be very strong. I hope Long McArthur will be ready too!

Maybe I’ll be wrong, but I’d suspect more people will buy an EV at the hometown dealership rather than a high-volume one out of state. Especially for first-time EV buyers, I’m skeptical of their willingness to figure out a trip that could require multiple recharges. It’ll be interesting to watch though!

 

[paneubert]

Maybe I’ll be wrong, but I’d suspect more people will buy an EV at the hometown dealership rather than a high-volume one out of state. Especially for first-time EV buyers, I’m skeptical of their willingness to figure out a trip that could require multiple recharges. It’ll be interesting to watch though!

I am one of those people who is already experiencing "range anxiety" over a lot of nothing (since we do not know a lot yet about any of the range/battery specs). But I will probably still do it...... Kansas to Seattle. Would be my third time doing the drive (first 2 were for my 2023 and 2025 Mavericks). I plotted it out with an EV routing database with an assumed 51 kWh battery and around 200 miles of range (95% highway driving). It would be 12-14 charging stops over roughly 1,700 miles. This would keep the state of charge at or above 15% when arriving at any of those charging stops. Most stops only want me to charge to between 50 and 80% capacity. This does not account for any hotel stays where I could charge back up to 100% overnight, etc... So it is doable, even when driving in rural Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, Oregon, Idaho, and Washington. Many of the suggested stops were Tesla SuperChargers or Rivian branded "adventure" type charging plazas (where they have like 12 or 14 chargers). Mostly near state parks or other outdoor activities.

 

[Snakebitten]

I'm on my 3rd EV

Range anxiety was way bigger in my mind than it turned out to be in real life. And honestly, it's just getting less and less an issue as time goes by.

I used to drive my F150 Powerboost on road trips to see family in San Antonio. (200 miles away) I had an aversion to public charging, for whatever reason. Then on 1 of those trips, I had a couple of granddaughters with me and I decided to add a little adventure to the trip by taking the Mach-E. I knew they would demand a stop at Buc-ee's, which meant I had no reason to try to get all the way to San Antonio anyways.

Charging at the Tesla Superchargers at that Buc-ee's was only my second ever DCFC. It was without drama and it flipped a switch for me. And now I SEE chargers everywhere, where beforehand I wasn't really looking.

That sweet F150 Powerboost now sits unused unless I'm towing an RV long distance.

 

[Tdubz]

Are you saying that Ford WANTS to, and is WILLING to sell me a Fathom at say...... $5000 lo$$, because tracking me with Bluecruise will generate more revenue for them than $5000?

I'm not arguing that Ford isn't interested in generating revenue with subscription services, and even with data collection. But my total cost to subscribe to Bluecruise, Connected Navigation, and Premium Connectivity in my 2022 KingRanch Powerboost, isn't generating enough profit to offset selling me the truck at a lo$$.

No one ever said $5k, even losing a penny is still a loss. Ford’s EV division has never made a profit, so technically they are losing money on every EV (at one point it was 40-60k per vehicle).

Now is ford using the fathom as a loss leader? Who knows, but I wouldn’t put it past them. It’s hard to make money off subscriptions when they are only offered in your most expensive vehicles. The fathom’s price lowers the point of entry and makes it available to many more people. Blue cruise is $500/yr. That adds up over the lifespan of the vehicle. And who knows how much the data is worth. This is exactly why GM got rid of android auto and Apple CarPlay. They want you in their ecosystem so they get to make money off of you. GM’s stated goal is $25 billion a year in subscriptions.

 

[Snakebitten]

Ford's EV division never even got close to breaking even, much less being profitable.

I think Ford was VERY dissapointed by that. It wasn't sustainable. Nor was it their strategy.

The whole UEV platform is Ford eating crow on the first attempt to be an EV manufacturer, and then going all in on a second approach. A very un-legacy approach too.

I can't imagine their strategy is to build and sell UEV products at a loss, regardless of the potential revenue from subscriptions and data harvesting.

 

[oldman_74]

I fear they are going to sell cheap but every aspect of tech will be subscription model... if they update frequently and fix bugs faster might be worth it. but given American automotive industry's love of their bottom I think not!

 

[dan_meh]

I am one of those people who is already experiencing "range anxiety" over a lot of nothing (since we do not know a lot yet about any of the range/battery specs). But I will probably still do it...... Kansas to Seattle. Would be my third time doing the drive (first 2 were for my 2023 and 2025 Mavericks). I plotted it out with an EV routing database with an assumed 51 kWh battery and around 200 miles of range (95% highway driving). It would be 12-14 charging stops over roughly 1,700 miles. This would keep the state of charge at or above 15% when arriving at any of those charging stops. Most stops only want me to charge to between 50 and 80% capacity. This does not account for any hotel stays where I could charge back up to 100% overnight, etc... So it is doable, even when driving in rural Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, Oregon, Idaho, and Washington. Many of the suggested stops were Tesla SuperChargers or Rivian branded "adventure" type charging plazas (where they have like 12 or 14 chargers). Mostly near state parks or other outdoor activities.

Agree with @Snakebitten: after you do a couple of one or two stop trips, it gets boring. I started the same way, but with my daughters. I knew we were going to have a pee break anyway (though not at a Buc-ee’s) so we stopped. And I plugged in. And then the car charged while we were peeing and buying gummy nerds . That’s it. The only drama is between the sisters.

The Mach-e doesn’t even charge that well, and it’s still not a big deal. Now, don’t get me wrong… Ford’s got to do better than the Mach-e curve in the UEV platform, but the current charging speeds are an annoyance, not a deal breaker for my 600 mile road trips.

That said, if you’re driving between Kansas City and Seattle on the regular, and you want a EV, you should prioritize a super efficient fast charging machine like an Ioniq 6 RWD. If I did a lot of road trips, I wouldn’t pick the Mach-e.

Let’s see how Ford does on this thing’s charging curve. Let it be low 200 and high 100 well to 70% and an efficiency around 3 miles per kWh at 70 mph. I’d drive that system from Kansas to Seattle.

 

[Tdubz]

You guys are much more patient than me. 30 min at a gas station would drive me crazy. Especially on a road trip after I just spent the last 2 hours passing everyone, only to watch them all pass me by while charging .

 

[gzebrick]

Ford's EV division never even got close to breaking even, much less being profitable.

I think Ford was VERY dissapointed by that. It wasn't sustainable. Nor was it their strategy.

The whole UEV platform is Ford eating crow on the first attempt to be an EV manufacturer, and then going all in on a second approach. A very un-legacy approach too.

I can't imagine their strategy is to build and sell UEV products at a loss, regardless of the potential revenue from subscriptions and data harvesting.

The start up cost for a NEW vehicle, especially from a new factory, is gigantic. They'll all see for a loss on every sale until enough of a model are sold to recoup the initial investment in R&D as well as building out whatever needed to be built + the daily cost in parts and labor to build. I suspect ALL vehicles are sold for a great loss for at least the first 3-5 years before enough profit was returned to cover not only the operating costs, but also recoup the initial investment.

It's a hell of a lot cheaper to continually make a vehicle that was designed 5-10 years ago that's built using an existing factory with existing tooling. Even the best manufactures are selling at a loss until X many models have been sold, then they finally cross into printing money (see: F150).

SLATE won't really be making an overall return and profit until they make enough of them to cover all the costs that started hitting them once they drew the first napkin design. It's going to take them many years and many sales to finally get in the black, and they don't have a fleet of F150s printing dollars to keep the total balance sheet up until that magic moment arrives (red-to-black).

 

[GotKT]

Gate 3555 is quite odd. Don't know of any airport with over 3000 gates 3500 would be a good sneaky reference to a tow rating, but 3555? Hmmmmmmmmm.

Flight No is GA 3555 (not gate)

Gate is F6, which means the bed is six feet long with open gate.
Or simply F6 = Fathom - six feet (a nautical unit of length)

The seat assignments don’t match (16A & 6A)