Tim says fully loaded Fathom well below mid 30's

[graycorgi]

The issue with using the Lightning as a home backup generator is that the power curve doesn't play well with the high-current items in a typical house, especially the HVAC system.

Can you elaborate on this? Under acceleration, my EV6 pulls north of 200kW. Thats about 10x more the peak inrush power needed to start a home AC compressor.

 

[chl]

The issue with using the Lightning as a home backup generator is that the power curve doesn't play well with the high-current items in a typical house, especially the HVAC system. And if you're not going to be able to use the HVAC system (or stove, water heater, etc.) then what's the point?

There are ways around this, such as installing a "soft start" module on your outdoor HVAC unit, but then you're adding more cost and most people will need it done by an electrician so there's additional cost...

Also, as mentioned, for a signficant outage lasting for days you need a large amount of power. Even the 123 kWh battery in my Lightning was only good for 2 to 3 days of running the house, at conservative usage.

Um...coffee, microwave, refrigerator !!!, lights, computer, telephones, TV, furnace fan, etc. That's the point.
Sure you can't run it forever, but in an emergency, sure is nice!

Some folks have medical equipment at home then need 24/7 so some emergency backup is a necessity.
Being able to charge your phone in case you need to call 911 is another example.

If you get a soft-start circuit for your HVAC you can run it with the 30A 240V from the Lightning depending on it's running current of course.

Depending on your climate fans might suffice in the heat.
I had to use my dang gas generator one winter to run the furnace fan when it was 10F outside and an ice storm had knocked out power...it would have been much nicer to have the Lightning then - cranking a gas generator in the cold without coffee in me was less than fun.

Can't do any of that sheet with an ICE vehicle. {Exception: the ICE F-150 w/power boost - my bad!]
And gas generators are noisy.

 

[chl]

Can you elaborate on this? Under acceleration, my EV6 pulls north of 200kW. Thats about 10x more the peak inrush power needed to start a home AC compressor.

On the Lightning forum, there are several folks who with soft-start circuits have run their HVAC off the PPOB 240V 30A (there is a peak number for the PPOB, but 30A is the running current).

 

[graycorgi]

On the Lightning forum, there are several folks who with soft-start circuits have run their HVAC off the PPOB 240V 30A (there is a peak number for the PPOB, but 30A is the running current).

Got it - so it's more of a limitation of the power output of the onboard AC inverter? That would make more sense to me - the battery should be more than capable, but the inverter is probably a bottleneck. My EV6 can't do more than 120v 16A due to the inverter, so it's not usable as a home backup.

 

[Snakebitten]

Um...coffee, microwave, refrigerator !!!, lights, computer, telephones, TV, furnace fan, etc. That's the point.
Sure you can't run it forever, but in an emergency, sure is nice!

Some folks have medical equipment at home then need 24/7 so some emergency backup is a necessity.
Being able to charge your phone in case you need to call 911 is another example.

If you get a soft-start circuit for your HVAC you can run it with the 30A 240V from the Lightning depending on it's running current of course.

Depending on your climate fans might suffice in the heat.
I had to use my dang gas generator one winter to run the furnace fan when it was 10F outside and an ice storm had knocked out power...it would have been much nicer to have the Lightning then - cranking a gas generator in the cold without coffee in me was less than fun.

Can't do any of that sheet with an ICE vehicle.
And gas generators are noisy.

I'll forgive you for not considering the F150 Powerboost as an ICE vehicle.

I've been an RV full-timer for a decade, (until recently)
Ford's 7.2KW (30A/240V) ProPower was first equipped on the Powerboost, before the Lightning existed.

So powering in outages, as well as when traveling/boondocking, isn't just for EV's.

 

[thum]

Got it - so it's more of a limitation of the power output of the onboard AC inverter? That would make more sense to me - the battery should be more than capable, but the inverter is probably a bottleneck. My EV6 can't do more than 120v 16A due to the inverter, so it's not usable as a home backup.

Can’t do a full backup with the ev6, but we can backfeed all of the 120v breakers in the panel. It’s shocking how much can be powered with 16 amps. TV, internet, lights, window AC unit, fridge, freezer. We Microwave and toaster oven require shutting off some other breakers while I use them. Window unit only cools 2 rooms, but it’s better than nothing.

It’s an added cost, but there is also an option to use a 240v portable power station as an inverter. Cheapest right now is a $2000 Anker that can push 50 amps 240. Just use the car to keep the PPS battery charging. Unless the AC or an electric furnace is running nonstop for several hours, the 16A from the car should keep up.

 

[chl]

Got it - so it's more of a limitation of the power output of the onboard AC inverter? That would make more sense to me - the battery should be more than capable, but the inverter is probably a bottleneck. My EV6 can't do more than 120v 16A due to the inverter, so it's not usable as a home backup.

Yes with the PPOB limited to 30A and HVAC compressor 'surge' current can exceed that.
The slow start electronics are not cheap, but in the long run, they should also make the compressor last longer by reducing the max current at start up.

 

[chl]

I'll forgive you for not considering the F150 Powerboost as an ICE vehicle.

I've been an RV full-timer for a decade, (until recently)
Ford's 7.2KW (30A/240V) ProPower was first equipped on the Powerboost, before the Lightning existed.

So powering in outages, as well as when traveling/boondocking, isn't just for EV's.

Yes, I'm aware of the ICE powerboost where the PPOB originated.
I never owned an ICE F-150 so I don't know the deets.

True the ICE F-150 with powerboost can do the same thing, but while burning a lot more $$ in gasoline a in the process. But my bad for not mentioning that - mea culpa!

But since we are talking about the Fathom home backup system about which we know very little and are just speculating based on what the Lightning F-150 currently provides, just noting that the 30A 240V output can power quite a few things easily in an outage.

I have a background draw of about 1kW (refrigerator, furnace circulating fan, vampire circuits, etc.) and when on backup power I only use the 2kW microwave for a minute or two. The coffee pot is about 1kW as well, but I have a hot water dispensing water cooler I could use to make Folgers coffee bag beverage by the cup ans use less energy.

I could run a 20A window air conditioner (AC) unit, but with the ceiling fans and air circulation, shade trees etc, it can be comfortable without AC so I don't bother - I put a floor fan in the basement and blow cool air up the stairway and there is always the cold shower method of cooling down that I use in the Caribbean, lol.

 

[Snakebitten]

Yes, I'm aware of the ICE powerboost where the PPOB originated.
I never owned an ICE F-150 so I don't know the deets.

True the ICE F-150 with powerboost can do the same thing, but while burning a lot more $$ in gasoline a in the process. But my bad for not mentioning that - mea culpa!

I get that without first hand experience, you would imagine that the ICE is running when the Powerboost is in "generator mode". But it's nothing like that. In fact, it's a tea-sipper from that 30 gallon fuel tank, especially at loads not including an Air Conditioner.

When powering my 30Amp RV, it requires the ICE to run for about 60-90 seconds in order to charge the HV battery up to 63% SOC. Then the ICE turns off.
The HV battery and 120V/240V inverter provides the RV with the required current until the HV battery is drawn down to 42% SOC. That can be as long as 19 minutes, depending on what is on in the RV. Once the SOC is 42%, the ICE starts and runs at charging idle (1000-1300 rpms, depending on user settings) and returns the HV battery to 63% SOC, and then turns off.

So imagine the ICE running 3-4 times per hour, and idling for 1-2 minutes.

It would take several days to consume enough fuel to become a concern.

I give all the credit to the design/engineering team for the Lightning for the Powerboost having ProPower onboard. I imagine that the idea for equipping the F150 3.5 Ecoboost "Hybrid" with such a legitimate 7.2KW rolling grid feature was in fact a poach from the Lightning R&D efforts.

I'm only surprised that Ford has sandbagged for so long with equipping more of their HV battery equipped vehicles with ProPower.

 

[chl]

I get that without first hand experience, you would imagine that the ICE is running when the Powerboost is in "generator mode". But it's nothing like that. In fact, it's a tea-sipper from that 30 gallon fuel tank, especially at loads not including an Air Conditioner.

When powering my 30Amp RV, it requires the ICE to run for about 60-90 seconds in order to charge the HV battery up to 63% SOC. Then the ICE turns off.
The HV battery and 120V/240V inverter provides the RV with the required current until the HV battery is drawn down to 42% SOC. That can be as long as 19 minutes, depending on what is on in the RV. Once the SOC is 42%, the ICE starts and runs at charging idle (1000-1300 rpms, depending on user settings) and returns the HV battery to 63% SOC, and then turns off.

So imagine the ICE running 3-4 times per hour, and idling for 1-2 minutes.

It would take several days to consume enough fuel to become a concern.

I give all the credit to the design/engineering team for the Lightning for the Powerboost having ProPower onboard. I imagine that the idea for equipping the F150 3.5 Ecoboost "Hybrid" with such a legitimate 7.2KW rolling grid feature was in fact a poach from the Lightning R&D efforts.

I'm only surprised that Ford has sandbagged for so long with equipping more of their HV battery equipped vehicles with ProPower.

Ah, thanks for the explanation, I see now a hybrid battery and short idling, good design for sure.

Is all that 12v battery cycling hard on the 12v battery I wonder?
They have been a weakness in the Lightnings barely lasting to the 3 year warranty expiration unless on a maintainer.

I did see some YouTube videos about the ICE F-150 12v battery issues a while back.

 

[paneubert]

Ah, thanks for the explanation, I see now a hybrid battery and short idling, good design for sure.

Is all that 12v battery cycling hard on the 12v battery I wonder?
They have been a weakness in the Lightnings barely lasting to the 3 year warranty expiration unless on a maintainer.

I did see some YouTube videos about the ICE F-150 12v battery issues a while back.

The same concept has been done by some of us with our tiny little Maverick Hybrids and we see the same "sips gas and only turns on the ICE occasionally" scenario. We made our own ProPower Onboard by installing 2,000W inverters attached to our 12v batteries under the back seat.

Check out....


Inverter Install: https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/threads/2000-watt-removable-inverter-installation.44646/

Another Inverter Install:

https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/threads/2000w-inverter.29841/


Another inverter: https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/threads/2000-watt-hybrid-inverter-as-generator.54063/

 

[Snakebitten]

Ah, thanks for the explanation, I see now a hybrid battery and short idling, good design for sure.

Is all that 12v battery cycling hard on the 12v battery I wonder?
They have been a weakness in the Lightnings barely lasting to the 3 year warranty expiration unless on a maintainer.

I did see some YouTube videos about the ICE F-150 12v battery issues a while back.

2 12V batteries.
Large H7 under the hood. Small 6AH under the rear passenger seat.

There is a PCM controlled isolator between the 2 batteries. The purpose is to separate/isolate the large 12V battery from all the low voltage electronics in the vehicle, when a high-Amp event takes place. The high Amp event is basically anytime the ICE requires starting by means of the traditional bendix/flywheel starter, or the BIS belt driven starter. (BIS starter was removed in 2024 model on)

There is no alternator or AC compressor in the Powerboost. Instead, a DC/DC converter and HV compressor. Exactly like an EV.

 

[chl]

The same concept has been done by some of us with our tiny little Maverick Hybrids and we see the same "sips gas and only turns on the ICE occasionally" scenario. We made our own ProPower Onboard by installing 2,000W inverters attached to our 12v batteries under the back seat.

Check out....


Inverter Install: https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/threads/2000-watt-removable-inverter-installation.44646/

Another Inverter Install:

https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/threads/2000w-inverter.29841/


Another inverter: https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/threads/2000-watt-hybrid-inverter-as-generator.54063/

Very interesting!