Fathom vs. Mach-E

[Tdubz]

Jim Farley has talked about this. Since most of the cost is in the battery pack, using a smaller battery combined with a gas engine doesn't really increase the cost of the vehicle. However, he was a little adverse to the idea at first because of the build complexity to make ICE and EV work together reliably. What changed his mind is that Lightning ended up only comprising <5% of F-150 sales, and the people who did buy/lease them (myself included) complained about the absolutely miserable range while towing. And so, with the Ram 1500 REV launching this fall I think Farley wants to see how that goes and if Ram has success with it, the next gen Lightning will also use a gasoline range extender too.

For the Fathom, the entire point is to make assembly as simple and easy as possible, which is one way they are keeping this under $30k. I suspect, but cannot confirm, that lower quality parts are the other half. Anyway, so it made sense for THIS vehicle to be EV only.

I think one of the ways ford is reducing the cost is by using smaller LFP batteries. Smaller batteries equal lower price, but also decrease range. So ford is also adding more aerodynamic designs to the UEV vehicles. So smaller battery and aero design equals the same range as bigger battery with boxy design. This is why the fathom doesn’t look like your typical truck.

 

[nvabill]

Nope.
Ford never said that or even hinted it would be an option.

Yeah, my bad, guess I had the Lightning confused with it.

 

[Flash]

I think overall for the entire EV market, the challenge selling new ones is the great value a used EV is right now.

 

[onuiebvbevnulib]

For the Fathom, the entire point is to make assembly as simple and easy as possible, which is one way they are keeping this under $30k. I suspect, but cannot confirm, that lower quality parts are the other half. Anyway, so it made sense for THIS vehicle to be EV only.

The other half is that they used this quote in the design to reduce costs:

The Best Part is No Part

and if Part is Necessary it must serve Multiple Purposes

 

[metroshot]

Wasn't the Fathom going to also be an EREV with a gas engine. I thought it was but now can't find anything about that. Guess that was just the lightning replacement.

No - Fathom won't have a gas generator - too expensive and bulky to add onto a small crossover/truck platform.

Scout has an EREV planned - I have had a deposit with them for years now and haven't seen one yet.

https://www.scoutforums.com/

 

[nvabill]

No - Fathom won't have a gas generator - too expensive and bulky to add onto a small crossover/truck platform.

Scout has an EREV planned - I have had a deposit with them for years now and haven't seen one yet.

https://www.scoutforums.com/

Thanks

 

[WXman]

The more I read and contemplate, the less excited I become about the Fathom. So I ended up following my own chain of thought and picked up a used Mach-E. There are a TON of these coming in off lease right now, in excellent condition, with anywhere from 10k to 40k miles on them and they can be bought cheap. The one I bought is a '23 GT. I'm in love with it.

I do have a Ram 2500 for jobs and tasks so I don't need a truck. I've been interested in Fathom as a daily driver mostly, which is what I think most people will do with it considering its small size and cargo capacity. The Mach-E presents a better daily driver with 600 lb/ft of torque and range closer to 300 miles and a track record of being extremely reliable along with very reasonable insurance costs.

I will still follow this forum, as I'm still intrigued by what Ford may do with this new Fathom vehicle.

 

[Snakebitten]

You won't hear me dissing the Mach-E GTPE. It's a fantastic vehicle, and one of the best vehicles that I have ever owned.

But I wouldn't consider it as cross-shopping choice with a Fathom. Completely different mission.

Enjoy that gorgeous car. And hopefully you find it to be as solid as my 2023.5 (build 2) was.

 

[rbertonieresr]

I’m a 23 Mach-E premium owner with 72,000 miles and love this car. I’m looking forward to seeing what the Fathom is all about. Timing is great since I’ll be ready to trade in around that time.
I’m sold on Ford but it depends on the size and range. If it is as small as the Maverick and less than 280 miles of range with the larger battery pack, it could be a deal killer.
I will have to pivot to the Subaru Trailseeker as an alternative option.

 

[WXman]

I’m a 23 Mach-E premium owner with 72,000 miles and love this car. I’m looking forward to seeing what the Fathom is all about. Timing is great since I’ll be ready to trade in around that time.
I’m sold on Ford but it depends on the size and range. If it is as small as the Maverick and less than 280 miles of range with the larger battery pack, it could be a deal killer.
I will have to pivot to the Subaru Trailseeker as an alternative option.

I looked at the Trailseeker also. Very interesting vehicle. The interior is where it falls behind. Very Toyota, i.e. dirt cheap. Looks like Rubbermaid was contracted to make the interior. And the placement of that 1980s LCD looking gauge cluster is horrific. It's a shame because the rest of the vehicle has potential.

As far as Fathom goes, it's almost confirmed now that it's the same size as a Maverick. That's going to turn off some folks. Adults have to squeeze into the second row. The bed is so small that it's very limited in use. It'll be interesting to see where the EPA rates it with the two battery packs. If the battery pack really is 51 kWh in the standard range, the Fathom will need some miraculous aero and light weight to even reach 200 miles of range, especially considering the 0.7 correction factor they apply to window sticker ratings. The extended range pack will need to be considerably larger to reach 300 miles probably, and if there's that much chasm between the two batteries it'll make the standard range a tough sell. I don't know... so many questions with this Fathom...

 

[mark]

I can't imagine that the CV axles, motor units, gauge thickness of materials, etc. etc. will be equivalent to what we saw on Mach-E or Lightning. All of these OE's literally watch pennies. They cost-cut here and there because when mass producing a vehicle it saves them tons of cash. Look at Mach-E...that vehicle saw a lot of decontenting in 2024 or 2025. Things like door handles, entry sill material, shifter knob, etc. etc. all removed or changed to less expensive versions.

So when I think of a vehicle like Fathom, where the price is HALF of the other EVs they've sold, I just cannot imagine that they are using the most robust, top shelf parts and materials in this vehicle. I expect that CV axles, sway bar thickness, shock absorbers, body panel thickness, glass thickness, strength of motor units, brake rotors, etc. etc. will be smaller, weaker, or of lower overall quality.

I could end up being wrong, but it would be a shock.

Putting 5+ billlion dollars into a Dollar Tree EV would sink this entire UEV concept in 24 months. Farley is not stupid, and the people he hired for the development team have their reputations at risk as well. While I expect their to be some issues that will show up after the the vehicle is on the road for six months to a year, those should not be due to purposely inferior designs. He has also stressed taking alot of key manufacturing in house to manage quality control. This also shifts the liability back to Ford. I sincerely hope you are wrong.

 

[mark]

Is the Mache bidirectional?

 

[onuiebvbevnulib]

Is the Mach-e bidirectional?

The Ford Mustang Mach-E does not officially come with factory-supported V2H (Vehicle-to-Home) or V2L (Vehicle-to-Load) power outlets built into the vehicle out of the box (unlike the F-150 Lightning).

Official Status vs. Workarounds

• Official Ford Support: Ford does not natively include an AC outlet or a factory V2H setup on the Mach-E. While Ford has explored or mentioned backup integration for future timelines, it lacks the hardware built directly into the vehicle's onboard charger like its truck siblings.
• Third-Party V2X Systems (e.g., Sigenergy): Some owners have demonstrated third-party bidirectional DC-to-AC solutions (such as the Sigenergy V2X system) that interface with the Mach-E's high-voltage battery to supply home backup or power management.
• Portable Adapters: Specialized aftermarket tools (like specific J1772-to-outlet adapters) allow pulling a small amount of auxiliary power for minor devices, though they are not meant for whole-house backup

The Sigenergy DC EV Charger can technically facilitate Vehicle-to-Home (V2H) power export with the Ford Mustang Mach-E (MME) through its 25 kW bi-directional DC system, though Ford does not officially support or advertise V2H/V2G for the Mach-E.

Current Status & Compatibility Realities

• Official Ford Support: Ford officially supports V2X features only on the F-150 Lightning, which features built-in onboard inverter/transformer hardware designed for home backup.
• Unofficial Field Reports: Real-world demonstrations and user reports on platforms like MachEforum and Reddit show that some un-modified Mach-E models have managed to interface with the Sigenergy SigenStor and pull DC energy to power home loads.
• The OTA Risk: Sigenergy and industry observers explicitly warn that vehicle manufacturers can disable unofficial or unsupported V2X capabilities at any time via an Over-The-Air (OTA) software update or a dealer-installed update if it causes warranty or technical issues. Sigenergy accepts no liability if Ford blocks this functionality.

Key Requirements for the Sigenergy Setup

• SigenStor Integration: The Sigenergy DC EV charger cannot operate as a standalone item; it must be integrated into a full Sigenergy SigenStor home battery and inverter stacking system.
• Power Ratings: The system delivers up to 25 kW of bi-directional DC power via a CCS plug.
• Discharge Criteria: For Sigenergy systems to recognize and register a V2X/V2H session, the vehicle discharge must typically meet at least one of these thresholds: a duration of 15 minutes or longer, 10 kWh or greater of discharged energy, or a 10% or greater drop in State of Charge (SOC).

Sigenergy Warning Risks of V2G/V2H/V2X: EV Hardware, Software and Warranty Limitations



Our Mustang Mach-E Powers an ENTIRE House! Bidirectional Charging from Sigenergy (V2X)

 

[mark]

Thank you!